In this episode, Charlie meets Kerri O’Neill, Chief People and Transformation Officer at Ipsos Mori and of course, ILM L7 qualified coach, who champions and supports coaching throughout the organisation. Together, they explore coaching in the context of HR in large organisations, sharing reflections, stories, and practical insights about coaching and personal growth. Main Topics Discussed in the Episode:
In this conversation, Kerri talks about the importance of coaching for HR, and why she believes that HR and coaching are perfect bedfellows.
We also talk about her own career, and the point at which coaching started to become important to her. And her involvement in the wonderful coaching programme at Ofcom that was part of her legacy.
Each story shared brings real-life insights that coaches at all levels can relate to and learn from.
If you’d like to learn more about Kerri’s work or explore her coaching resources, you can visit:
Useful Links From This Episode:
Transcript:
Charlie (00:02.691)
Hello everyone and I hope that you’re having a good day whether you’re coaching, being coached, reading about coaching, thinking about coaching or perhaps even doing something that’s nothing to do with coaching. That is always possible, I understand. I’m very excited today to have as my guest, Kerry, Kerry O ‘Neil. Hi Kerry, how are you doing today?
Kerri ONeill (00:22.99)
Fabulous, fabulous Charlie.
Charlie (00:25.241)
It’s lovely to see you. So on this first series of our podcast, I really wanted to have people who really love their coaching. And I meet many people who love their coaching. And when Kerry came on our coach training, she was bursting full of enthusiasm and joy for coaching. And Kerry, she is the chief people officer and a charity non -exec director. And she has been working in HR for 20 years. So I’ve known Kerry for a couple of years.
but 20 years in HR, that’s a really big deal. Currently she works for Ipsos UK and she’s led HR transformation, financial services, retail government and now research. So I met Kerry when she was working at Ofcom and she trained to be a coach but also she helped really supercharge and make coaching happen in Ofcom. was a…
a great thing and something that’s still going and a wonderful legacy for her. She earned her ILM level seven coaching qualification while she was still at Ofcom and now she’s at Ipsos. So Kerry, 20 years in HR. I’m sure there are other podcasts when they just talk about HR. Give us a bit of, tell us what it’s like 20 years in HR.
Kerri ONeill (01:37.208)
Thank
Kerri ONeill (01:42.922)
I know I’m very excited to be sort of hitting this anniversary is longer than my marriage. So I have now been a long time in the profession and lots has changed, but lots is still the same. And actually you can start to see some cyclical trends coming through, but throughout has been an important role for coaching coaches. think one of the biggest changes is it used to be all about bringing external
coaches in, for very senior people. And the sort of democratisation of coaching has been absolutely wonderful to see and hopefully sort of driven a little bit of a part of that in the organisations that I’ve worked in.
Charlie (02:29.089)
It’s such a good point. One of my little bugbears is the idea that one of the coaching qualifications we teach, they call it executive coaching because it does ring -fence it a bit too much and that’s not what we want to do. Just say a little bit more about that language you just used, democratization of coaching, and what’s important about that for you?
Kerri ONeill (02:37.838)
Well, exactly that. think, you know, so coaching 20 years ago when I first started, it was a very exclusive thing. You know, it was something only the top people had access to. Quite often, you know, because of the times, that’s men as well, access to this incredible support that we all need to be the best that we can be. And I think one of the big shifts that’s been massively important, and we see that in the number of people who’ve trained to be coaches, the number of people interested in coaching but also the number of people interested in being coached.
I think has really been a difference and I think it’s really helpful. All of us could benefit, I think, at times from what coaching can offer and that space to think through your ideas, to understand that that answer is probably within yourself. You are the best person to guide and shape and create the outcomes in your life that you’re looking for. And so for me, it’s a
wonderful shift that we’ve seen along may it continue and that interest in being a coach and being coached is something that I think has at least you know it’s going to grow and grow and grow is something that’s offered.
Charlie (04:14.103)
That’s definitely a positive message. And I hear lots of new coaches worrying about, you know, will coaching pick up and will it carry on because it is a new profession? And I think that that’s a really positive message to take. And listeners, you will hear throughout this conversation with Kerry very much this idea of, she may think about himself a little bit as a coach, but really thinking about others, you know, thinking about colleagues, thinking about other coaches and coaches. And that’s…
That’s one of the things that’s really struck me about you, that you have this wider interest. It’s not about yourself, but I am going to ask a few questions about you. I’m curious to know, and I was curious to know in 2022, what was going on for you at that stage in your career that was like time to invest in yourself personally as a coach, having known about it for so long?
Kerri ONeill (05:03.924)
Yeah, I mean, I think doing a coaching qualification had been on my mind for quite a long time. It’s not unusual to see HR director sort of, you know, at the retirement phase and then becoming an executive coach and then often taking on non -executive roles. But I didn’t want to wait until I’d, you know, I’d retired to do that. I think so it’s been on my mind to do the qualification.
and I thought it would add tremendous value to a skill set that I thought I already had in abundance. We can come onto that Charlie can’t we?
what you learned in the training. And so I thought this is a natural next step. The opportunity came up because we were really investing in coaching at Ofcom. And I finally reached a bit of an opportunity and a space where I thought I can take this on as well. And so I joined the cohort that went forward with you and embarked on the level seven.
and receive the qualification and learn a lot in the process.
Charlie (06:22.947)
So you’re alluding to skills that you thought you had and you had to develop. And I think we all find that, don’t we, when do the training? But let’s talk a bit about the skills that you definitely did bring in. So one of the things I’m really keen to impress upon people, senior people, is that when they sign up for coach training, they will turn up with existing skills. Definitely. We’re not teaching sort of new and magic skills that are.
that are like our secret sauce. It’s not about that, I don’t think. Which skills were you happy with? If you think about like the end of the first couple of days training, you think, yeah, I’ve got those. I’m okay with those skills, which were the ones that definitely felt in place.
Kerri ONeill (07:05.504)
I think that the skill around holding space for people, the skill around listening, I felt very comfortable with. think in the HR profession that that’s something you learn pretty quickly is that you’re interested in people. also think…
being able to help people play back what they had just said in a way that kind of them would sort of as a settler, I was confident with those skills. But there are many that I thought I had, that the training made me realize that actually a little bit more practice could be done here. But I also think in the training, was also,
was very comfortable to support others in that training and I found it really fantastic to support the fellow, know, fellow coaches on the journey as well and I think some of that came through as well. think people like, know, Kerry’s been really helpful in doing this. So it was nice to do the training with others and I think that’s something that I would recommend.
Charlie (08:22.233)
And thank you for that. And interesting when you describe that, you know, that was one of the skills that always struck me as really strong about you there as well. Your care, your empathy, your compassion, you know, as like you were in a group as one of eight learners, but you still took on a bit of a nurturing role and you had one of your Ofcom colleagues with you, but other people from all sorts of sectors, didn’t you? And what do you like about that? What do you like about that sort of corralling, bringing people together and boosting them up?
Kerri ONeill (08:53.394)
I mean, is nothing that really makes me happier, to be honest. I think the ability to get a window into another person’s life or another person’s job or what’s going on for them is such an enriching experience. And I really enjoyed hearing people’s sort of applications of how their coaching was going to come through and where they were coming from. And everyone’s in a different place in the UK as well
So you kind of got a sense of geography and different sectors and coming together to learn how to do something together or to build the expertise together was something I really liked and it was a really
you know, sometimes you just think, how am going to fit it all in? And then when you got there, you were like, this is the only place I want to be. that warmth that we created, we had a WhatsApp group as well that was very, you know, we had a lot of fun on that as well. so I, you know, really fondly, and then I’ve stayed in touch with various people. And so, yeah, it was was a great community experience, Charlie, so thank you.
Charlie (10:13.907)
It’s a real pleasure. Well, we often hear people say that because I think it’s a combination of a small group of working on something that is, it’s a personal skill, even though it’s also a professional skill, that it is quite hard, isn’t it? not, you know, this is not a rubber stamping type of thing. So people have to put in great efforts. And I think there’s also something about being coached, isn’t it? Is that you go into breakout rooms and you would have coached that person and they would coach you next week. so there’s
Charlie (10:41.997)
Quite a lot of sharing and quite a lot of vulnerability there that goes on that maybe we don’t see in every course.
Kerri ONeill (10:47.84)
Yeah, yeah, that’s definitely true. I think that’s really true. And you get to know people. mean, as coaches and coaches do too, there’s these shortcuts of getting to know what’s really going on for someone. That definitely happened as well. And it definitely added to the experience of the learning.
Charlie (11:07.587)
Yes. Yes. So, so let’s take that out of the training room then and think a bit about as part of this qualification, you’re practicing, you’re having coaching. And I think I remember with you, I was quite lucky that sometimes this happens that I get to hear all or most of the coaching sessions with one of your coaches. So I sort of feel like I’m like your wingman watching, seeing what’s, what’s happening. I’m really curious for you, what was it like knowing that you were coming into these one -to -one conversations with your
coaching hat on as opposed to your HR director hat on.
Kerri ONeill (11:40.65)
Yeah, I mean, it was different. the structure that lives around a coaching conversation, I think is a little bit different to how you would have a one -to -one with a HR director, for example. And also in a one -to -one with the HR director, normally it’s…
wanting to come for advice or you’re wanting to come for a steer or some or you know and so it’s more of a mentoring discussion quite often or seeking direction or seeking advice in a coaching conversation obviously it’s an equal partnership about trying to find the space and the avenue for that person to think something through for themselves and so learning the difference for me was a really big powerful
lesson and it was a real challenge for me to not give advice. As you know Charlie, I mean I was almost admitting it myself, was like right at minute 21 and at minute 47 I have strayed into the advice giving world but at least I’m aware of it now and that holding back your own
ideas about what someone could do was a totally transformational experience. I loved it once I kind of got through the slight frustration of it and it has stayed with me as one of the most powerful lessons of learning to be a coach.
Charlie (13:29.315)
think that we should take that as a little motto, shouldn’t we? I love the non -advisory approach, having got through the frustration of it, because there is, you’re right, there’s a bit of a wall. And for people who are listening who maybe are new to coaching or thinking about getting a coach, we really encourage a non -advisory approach to coaching, but that doesn’t mean you have to give up advice in your whole life. Certainly in the important work you do, advice and guidelines are really important.
Charlie (13:58.411)
And the same in our personal lives and the same as parents, you know, we can’t be an offer advice, but you’re right that there’s a real benefit of it. what do you like about that? mean, and here’s a massively leading question, right? Do you feel yourself liberated from having to think about the answers and the solutions when you’re coaching
Kerri ONeill (14:19.786)
Yeah, definitely. And you know, you and I spoke about it at length and as I I’ve initially found it frustrating that, you know, I’m trying a new skill. And of course, when you’re learning and training, sort of you’re almost learning the most extreme end of the skill to be able to apply it in a nuanced way when when it kind of hits the hits the real world, of course. And I was trying really hard
Charlie (14:39.257)
Yeah. Yeah.
Kerri ONeill (14:49.732)
in the training to not give advice as a sort of test to myself that I can go a full hour. I can do this. But it was frustrating. I was frustrated with myself at points because I was like, why am I doing that?
Kerri ONeill (15:09.196)
What’s the prompt here for me to try and insert my experience or my sort of wisdom into this space? And that’s, was a frustration at myself at points. And sometimes there was a frustration around, well, clearly the best thing to do here is to give this person the advice. And so to find another way around, like what’s a open question that’s not leading, you know, what is another way around this to unlock what person feels in the
their heart or in their mind or in their own experience. Actually, that’s what I gripped onto is that that’s the challenge because actually that was when the really exciting stuff came through, particularly for some of my coaches, is that confidence in it being their own solution that they thought of, albeit in company with me, but I had played no part in them getting there, them enacting that and then seeing the positive outcome of that.
you know, you can then literally see the confidence build in that person, in their own thoughts, in their own experience and in their own self. And that is the powerful lesson. And so for me, where possible, I do try to…
not give advice and to see where a person is at first. And it can be a little bit challenging, some people are expecting that of a HR director to do that. But it’s much more enjoyable and it’s much more creative, I think, if you can help people get there themselves and you can relax a little bit as well in the conversation.
Charlie (16:51.267)
So I’m.
Well, and I’m hearing so many interesting words, you know, when you’re talking about for the other person, the coachee or your colleagues, know, the unlocking, their ownership, their confidence, their enjoyment of taking these, but also here for you in the chair, the holding back, the, yeah, maybe you can relax into it, but offering it.
to them and giving them the time to work this out. And I think there is something about, it feels to me like it’s a passing of the baton. It’s saying, look, you know, I trust you, can you trust yourself?
Kerri ONeill (17:27.714)
Yeah, yeah.
Charlie (17:28.729)
So the last question I want to ask you about you and your coaching before we move on to thinking about organizations a bit is what was it like the moment when you’re very experienced, you’ve got a whole bunch of postgraduate experience and qualifications, but when you earn this and when you get certified as an ILM Level 7 Masters level coach, what did that mean to you?
it meant a huge amount. mean, I think, you know, being qualified is being recognized, isn’t it? And that recognition that you do have this skill set, that you do, you know, you have learned about the profession, you have learned where it’s coming from, and there’s lots of different influences on coaching, and you can sort of pick your way now through what some of those different things are.
It’s very empowering and it’s always great to learn things later in life as well. You know, it’s great to be able to say to people, I’m 20 years into a profession and there’s still things to learn. I think that that is an incredibly important message that we sort of never stop learning. And once you get the level seven, of course, there’s then the practice of doing more and more coaching and
Kerri ONeill (18:52.14)
And so there’s lots to do in this space and lots to continue, particularly if you’re goal focused, you know, can then move up into some of the other upper echelons of kind of status if that’s what you’re looking for.
Charlie (19:07.533)
Yes, and that’s a really good way of describing it is it’s an advanced qualification and really serves people well. But and some people decide to push on even further if they can find the time or the energy. So we’ll take a break in a moment and listeners, I hope you what you’re hearing from Kerry’s story is as inspiring for you as it is for me. Kerry is one of the most
experienced HR people around in the UK and the fact that she could find the time and find the energy, not to say it’s easy to carve out that diary time, but she was prepared to do it. And I often see this with very senior people, they don’t have the time, but they make the time, they somehow give up weekends or give up evenings or focus for this type of thing. So I think it’s a really inspiring story. So relate it to your own journey, relate it to your own development as a coach and think about how you have probably got
in some way. And go and have a cup of tea and we’ll be back in a moment.
Charlie (20:09.229)
So welcome back everyone. And this fits quite nicely into like a bit of a game of two halves because Kerry’s been able to talk a lot about her coaching and her coach development. And now we can start talking a little bit about coaching in the context of the organization. So Kerry, I’m struck with the fact that in the year after you got your coaching qualification, you were able to leave a wonderful legacy at Ofcom, get a new job, write a book, I think, or start writing a book.
collaborating, have all sorts of impact and get involved in lots of activities. So how is all of this impacting you in the big picture of your career?
Kerri ONeill (20:52.194)
It came, the coaching training, it came at a really important moment, I think, for me, when I look at it now. One of the things that struck me in training to be a coach, to get the qualification, is it took me back to a lot of the work I was doing, a lot of the areas that I was exploring when I first started out in HR in the 2000s. So some of the texts that’s recommended
and did sort of Nazi climb time to think, Peter Drucker, different aspects of the kind of.
You know, some of those real coaching Bibles that are out there took me back to when I started my career and it’s what made me so excited to join HR and to see the potential of HR in an organization to help make it thrive. And there are so many parallels between what coaching is trying to do, help people reach their potential, help.
boost creativity, help people thrive to what I was so excited about when I joined the profession 20 years ago and what we try and do in organisations, which how does an organisation thrive? How does an organisation reach its full potential? And that sort of almost circular moment, I then think, really helped me to think, well, what is, what’s the next set of legacy that I would like to lead in my career? So it came at an important junction
for me, which I’m forever grateful that you were part of that journey, Charlie.
Charlie (22:29.977)
And I mean, I’m very grateful as well. And I often observe this. please, employers, if you’re planning on sponsoring one of your colleagues to go to do coach training, it doesn’t always happen like this. People don’t always get their coaching qualification and leave. But often they get their coaching qualification and move up. That’s very, very common. And I think it’s because there’s something that draws people to want to learn coaching that means that change is in the air.
There’s growth and there’s development. We work with lots of head teachers who move from being a head to being an executive head, for example, or move from being an HR manager to an HR director. So I feel privy to all sorts of promotions and sorts of developments. I’d be really interested to reflect for a moment about the legacy that you left at Ofcom because you and listeners will hear in another episode, another series in detail about the Ofcom project.
Kerri ONeill (23:05.739)
you.
Charlie (23:27.651)
But when you were there, there were a couple of dozen of coaches and there was a sort of a latent program going on. What are you happy about when you reflect on what happened at Ofcom with you?
Kerri ONeill (23:40.778)
I think what we were able to do at Ofcom is sort of almost bring back the joy of coaching and being coached and having access to coaches. So there’d been a program before where lots of people got different qualifications, but then they weren’t necessarily applying that within the workplace, potentially outside of the workplace. And what we were able to do with the fantastic Ros and Lisa in the team is
really bring back that offer and access to coaching within the organisation so we were able to sort of reignite the passions of the people who’d been trained so far and to bring their skills right up to speed but also to be able to say to colleagues that coaching is a really important part of how we want to lead.
as we move forward and we want the coaching skill set to sit at the heart of the experience that people have with their managers and leaders and therefore in order to ask that of leaders they need to have access to coaching themselves and so we really were able to weave the skills of coaching and know coaching itself and coaches into our leadership.
and employee experience and really help people unlock what is already an amazing set of people and expertise and ideas in the organisation. So it felt like a really natural fit for this work.
in in Ofcom and so really pleased to the I mean often as the HR director you’re you’re there to green light things to make sure the funding is there to make sure resourcing is there but also the focus obviously you then got fantastic members of the team who are able to take it onto the next level and execute but really pleased to be to have left that there for Ofcom and I know they’re doing lots more on it now since leaving as well.
Charlie (25:50.399)
I don’t when you say that one of the things I’ve often been struck with that of calm that is that the coaches don’t necessarily. They don’t make up the traditional perhaps coaching community of learning development professionals and HR people there’s a few of those of course but there are people in finance there are people in technical roles there are people in non -client facing roles all sorts of roles and.
Kerri ONeill (26:04.908)
Yeah.
Charlie (26:15.705)
And I’ve known some of them since 2018 and I definitely get this passion and enthusiasm for coaching. And to find time to do it amongst all sorts of interesting and fascinating and challenging type of day jobs that they’ve got. And I think that that’s, it shows the potential richness for coaching. It’s not just for L and D folks.
Kerri ONeill (26:26.862)
Completely. I think that’s really where the power lies because what you’re also doing is helping create bonds across the organization. Obviously, there’s confidentiality and kind of ways of working within a relationship. But outwith of that, you’re learning about what life looks like for colleagues. You might learn about what a team is trying to achieve. You might learn about different challenges. And so there is a sort of inner layer of wisdom and knowledge
that also can get built in the organisation when some of this is really firing. And I think it then has a positive knock -on impact onto the culture. And I think also being able to work with the community of coaches is a really important thing. clearly without…
breaking confidence, you can through that learn what are the major challenges? What are the things we need to invest in in our management training? What are the things that are going to be coming through focus groups? And the coaches over time become a really important listening post and really important
area for HR teams to have another look at what’s going on in the organization right now. And so I think that then adds to the effectiveness and responsiveness and the relevance of what’s then happening within the wider people team. So, well, as you can tell, this is all about love your coaching. So there’s so many advantages, I think, to pursuing this within an organization.
Charlie (28:12.537)
Well, and I think, I mean, you have a set of eyes that I don’t have because you see that type of big picture and the idea that what coaches hear and what they learn and what they notice can contribute to a wider understanding of what’s going on in the organization and strategy. you’re right, it can be done without breaching confidentiality. That’s really important.
Charlie (28:37.079)
So you now move from Ofco, so I’m sounding like this is your life, aren’t I? So you’re now moving to, and here we have, no. So you moved to Ipsos and you can turn up at Ipsos with a fresh set of eyes, all of your experience, but now this new coaching qualification. What were you looking for? What were you hoping to see so that you could get coaching embedded here at Ipsos?
Kerri ONeill (29:05.186)
Well, through the interview process, I realized that coaching was incredibly important to Ipsos as well. And so this was quite a huge hook for me. so subsequently joining, I’ve been here for just over six months. similar to Ofcom, I’ve found this wonderful community of trained coaches. Some people have taken it upon themselves to do the qualification and the work. Other people, there’s been…
different investments over the year in terms of company trained coaching. And we’re just at the start of bringing this community of coaches together to learn about how they’re applying this within the organization and outside the organization. And we’re also just starting to take a look at our leadership strategies and our learning strategies. But one of the things…
Very similar to Ofcom in a way, is Ipsos is stuffed full of talented, amazing people. Clearly their job is to research, produce insight.
find truths for organizations, find answers for questions that organizations have. And so there is a real natural home for coaching, like asking those right questions, really exploring what might be going on here. So it’s quite a natural fit. I, you know, I’m only six months in, so I can’t come and say, here’s a really huge kind of outcome and an impact yet.
But I’m really excited about what we’re going to be able to do at Ipsos and coaching Charlie. So watch this space, I would say.
Charlie (30:48.183)
that’s right. Yeah. And I can imagine first six months in, you know, you’ll be writing your strategic plan, won’t you? And you’re going to have a whole bunch of priorities, whether coaching was really well developed already or whether it was completely new. You’re bound to have an influence. Well, without wanting to… I know we just had an election, right? So I’m not going to ask for manifesto commitments. But imagine let’s go forward three or five years, whether it is at Ipsos or…
Charlie (31:16.601)
to give a bit more freedom in your answer, like another global type of size organization, what would you like to see three or five years into a mature coaching system in the organization? What would you hope to see?
Kerri ONeill (31:30.328)
If I could dream a dream, yeah, no, no, exactly. I mean, for me, I think that the skill set of coaching, it’s gone from sort of, you know, the executive coach is quite an exclusive skill set. It’s been further democratized, which is great. I think there is another wave of democratization and I think managers should really learn many of the skills that coaches offer because that ability to really listen to what’s going on
Charlie (31:31.671)
Yeah, why not?
Kerri ONeill (32:00.332)
individuals in the team and be able to use that collective wisdom to unlocks the team manage themselves through some of their challenges I think is a natural evolution. Will every manager have the time and the space and the inclination to be formally qualified? You know, probably not but
I think that skill of coaching is something that I would certainly like to see very distributed with anyone that’s a people manager for sure, or leading big projects, or leading organizations or departments. Then alongside that, I think we will, you know, what’s important is to have trained individuals who act as role models, inspiration,
you know, mentoring and able to make sure that the skill set of the people around them is relevant and it’s being, you know, being supported. And so I think that for me, having more internal coaches, not necessarily HR, but people in the work is another really, really important step. you know, the other sort of thing I think that has really changed is
Sometimes we wait to give people a coach when maybe things are going not quite right and we feel like they need some coaching. So moving from a sense that might this be something that we’re doing to help improve someone or to move something when something’s near to being a problem to actually just being a default strategy.
for a person to have a coach I think is a really exciting and potentially quite important step forward. So an expansion of the skill set, an expansion of the number of coaches is probably what I would like to see and be driving towards as we move forward.
Charlie (34:00.557)
So there’s loads of things I want to pick up on there, but I just want to pick up that language you said coaching is a default strategy. think that that’s a really interesting thing because I think, I mean, we talk about it, it’s not, we don’t want it to be just deficit coaching, you know, when someone’s struggling. So I tend to say, yeah, because it can be for positive things, but actually what you’re talking about default, you know, we all have good weeks and bad weeks. We’re all good at some things and not so good at other things. And the idea that good or bad or average or whatever coaching
is like ever present for people. think that just sort of normalizes it. I really like the way you’ve described that.
Kerri ONeill (34:36.898)
Yeah, and I think, you know, what I’m not saying is that you necessarily need a coach all year round, all the time. I still think actually having a kind of time bound coaching assignment is really good. But actually what might become the norm is that each year for this period, you will you will have coaching, you know, and it will.
wherever someone is then at, it will then help them go to that next level of their thinking and next level of their behavior and next level of what might happen for them. And so I think, you know, for me, that becoming a more normalized part of how we lead, how senior leaders are supported is potentially a really important next step because the world is getting more complex. mean, I can’t…
Charlie (35:12.398)
Yes.
Kerri ONeill (35:27.436)
tell you how many conferences I’ve been to where people say it’s the hardest it’s probably ever been to see as be a CEO, to be in the C -suite, to be a senior leader because of…
so much going on out there in a kind polycrisis world. And so for me, this is also an important resilience strategy and it’s an important creativity strategy because we have to think of new things to face into this set of challenges. I know that’s sort of like super big picture, but you you asked me to go to what I really would like to see, Charlie, but.
I think, you know, not to say that coaching is going to solve every crisis that we have, but we need to be able to help people have space to think about some of these, some of this tough stuff.
I think if just a quick side angle, I do also think that there is something very emergent and exciting about kind of collective group coaching, team coaching. And so that sort of look at how it goes from the individual to the team to a set of leaders who are maybe trying to solve a big problem. I think that’s got huge potential as well.
Charlie (36:47.609)
Yeah, and actually in the last five years, have, the International Coach Federation have produced team coaching competencies. And there is a difference between team coaching, a team working on a collective issue and group coaching where you’ve got 10 individuals on their own issues, but having coaching in the group environment. So I’m going to do my best to try and encapsulate and summarize all of those things these last five minutes because there was so much and I think really important things for our listener to hear.
Charlie (37:17.495)
the idea that we have managers who can access coaching skills so that that’s a bit of a default, a bit of a norm, which will empower teams, then the idea that there is a pool of coaches and skilled, qualified professional coaches that people can access coaching, but not permanently. It’s like a year on, a year off, or a program on, a program off. That coaching can be used as part of the challenge for senior roles still.
and probably other roles, but high -pressured roles because the roles are never going to… The direction of travel is things are getting harder. The direction of travel is not that things are getting easier. And the coaching should be a norm rather than for the… For just for people who are struggling, those things. That’s a vision, right? That’s a really… It’s a powerful and a strong vision. Let’s… We don’t want to dwell on it too much, but imagine a…
a sponsor, senior sponsor, and B, a new and a junior HRBP. And both of them in different conversations say to, look, Harry, this sounds fab, but there’s no time for it, or there’s no budget for it, or there’s no, I’ve got no energy for it. What would be your standard riposte to the gentle and polite pushback that you may get?
Kerri ONeill (38:39.212)
You know, I think at the end of the day, you have to want to be a coach. It’s a mindset, it’s an action. And so, you know, I’d probably be quite disappointed doing that, to be honest, but you know, I’d hide it. you know, I think you can’t force people in this space. What you can, I think, is give people an experience that maybe helps them understand
what it is maybe that this is. think like lots of things, coaching, mentoring, people don’t necessarily know what that is or maybe they’ve had a terrible experience of it and so that’s what’s going on. So that I think around mindset, around budgeting and resourcing, I think you have to think about the payback and you know have to think about in any other
Kerri ONeill (39:39.072)
way that you would about the business case. Like this is a skill set that you can instantly apply. So sort of one, isn’t a and two, the things that it can empower and do in an organization.
is in my experience always so much more powerful and valuable than the quite small cost of the qualification and the time. so that sort of focus on the payback is an important element of this. There is trust in that because it’s not always easy to say because of our coaching, this manager has done X.
Which has meant why? Which has meant the team is now thriving, it’s getting in the commercial outcomes, it’s got good morale. It’s not always easy to put figures on these things, but it’s incredibly powerful for an organization to have more teams that are thriving than not.
And quite often coaching will be a very big unlock of what that team is doing. And then on time, it’s classic prioritization, isn’t it? I managed to squeeze it in. don’t quite know how, but I did. With a supportive family, with a supportive workplace, and with some determination, I think you can usually…
find the time out there and many people have done many many things you know to alongside their work so it is possible with a bit of focus although I was quite pleased when it when I had finished all the assignments I won’t lie
Charlie (41:24.511)
Well, you’re like me, aren’t you? You’ve got an office in the bottom of your garden, so presumably a sturdy lock does help to get you through. You know, when you were talking, I was reminded when I first started coaching, there was this video that went round of Eric Schmidt, was CEO of Google at the time. And he was the whole, I thought coaching was rubbish and I didn’t need it. But then I got a coach and I think it’s wonderful. every coach had that on his website because it was like, this is, look, this is coaching.
Kerri ONeill (41:30.171)
Thank you.
Kerri ONeill (41:51.971)
Yeah.
Charlie (41:53.513)
I don’t want to compare you to him, but I think your answer is better. Right, because it’s more substantial and it’s more thorough and it’s really compelling. Actually, you know, it is really hard to measure the, what’s I suppose called the isolation factor. You know, was it coaching that improved that person or was it something else? But I think that even if it was something else, the fact that someone’s committing to coaching, it’s likely to mean that they are more open to those conversations. They’re more open to the training that they’re having or the
or the targets or any of those other things. So I think, mean, obviously I fly the flag for coaching. I’m going to think that. But that’s joyful and that’s wonderful to hear. And I think what we’re hearing here is like a real potential blueprint for coaching to make a really big difference. And I agree with you, know, the cost, the cost is small in proportion with the potential saving of someone’s wellbeing crisis or a re -recruitment or…
someone bashing below their average and not doing so well in their job. think that it’s really significant.
Kerri ONeill (42:57.484)
Yeah, I agree. agree. I think, you know, there is a huge place for coaching in modern HR and leadership practices. so wherever I go.
I will bring this viewpoint. Happy to be challenged, there’s always excitement if people have a completely different counter view, isn’t there? But, you know, personally, I will be flying the flag of the benefits, having seen it myself, not just in myself, but in others and some very senior people that I’ve worked with, but also in others. And so, yeah, big bright future ahead for the coaching.
Charlie (43:35.905)
I agree, I totally agree. So this has been joyful and the opportunity to hear you talk partly about your coaching in the context of your career, but then also about organisations and I’m sure that our listeners will get lots from it. The last question that I’m asking and people are telling me that they’re finding this quite a challenging question. So in good coaching manner, take your time to think about your answer. I’d really like you to be able to encapsulate a bit.
loving your coaching. What is it about coaching that has really got under your skin? What makes you love your coaching for you or for others?
Kerri ONeill (44:10.028)
Ooh, it’s a good question, big question. I think for me, it’s the unending sort of excitement that I have around the creativity and the promise that it could unlock. In a busy world where distraction is plentiful, that holding that quiet space…
for someone to think something through, it out loud and build their own commitment around an idea is one of the biggest gifts that you could give someone.
Charlie (44:52.697)
Thank you so much for sharing that. I really wanted to pause for 10 minutes, but I think people might have think we’ve gone away. That was a joyful, joyful thing to hear. You’re right. is often coaches say privilege, don’t they? They say it’s a real privilege to sit with someone when they work through these things. Kerry, thank you so much for coming on. And I know you were prepared for this and really thinking about this a lot. And as have I been, it’s been a real joy talking to you. And I’m sure our listeners will get lots.
thinking about this for coaching in the context of their career. And listeners, think about this. Lots of organizations are investing in their coaching and lots of organizations are new to it. So talking to them and understanding them, whether you work for an organization or whether you are looking to offer your coaching into them, it’s really good to know from the organization’s perspective. And I don’t think you have very much better and clearer and more passionate about.
the reason for taking coaching into an organization. Have a good week, enjoy your coaching and look forward to seeing you next time. Thank you so much again, Kerry.
Kerri ONeill (45:57.506)
Thank you.
About Charlie:
I’m Charlie Warshawski, a UK based coach, coach trainer and supervisor. Coaching has been my thing since 2007 and I’ve been keen to start this podcast, to help fellow coaches navigate the difficulties of running a coaching business or practice. Most of my coaching takes place in education and I love coaching school leaders. And most of the supervision I do is with coaches who are starting their coaching practice.
Since 2019 I’ve been supporting new and experienced coaches with resources to help them grow their business – our free The Sustainable Coach programme is available to all coaches, and over 200 coaches have accessed these resources.
Away from coaching, four children, three pets, a poor table tennis and cycling schedule and a thirst for language learning all keep me busy.
Love Your Coaching Resources:
- Visit our website
- Learn more about our courses and coaching qualifications
- Contacts: charlie@loveyourcoaching.com | hello@loveyourcoaching.com| 01306 264026 | 0774 8515189
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